Stop The Scripted Cheating
- Thread starter LEGOFLAMB22
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Tech_Skill
Registered User
Both games need to work on their offsides, in the 'other' game, the assistant ref will get it wrong, especially off crosses sometimes, whether this is meant to mimic real life decisions i dont know.
iamcanadianeh
Registered User
The only reason it happens more in favour of the AI is not due to "cheating." It seems to me that it's due to the fact that, as humans, we make unpredictable plays which the programming for the offside rule did not expect.
Also, I disagree about it being a good thing that the offsides can be wrong. Yes, this happens in real life, but it usually happens when a player is marginally offside. In PES 09 that's not the case, the errors I have seen are more due to mistakes in the actual interpretation of the offside rule, for example, when a player is not allowed to "tag up."
Tech_Skill
Registered User
I agree, if its a close call, i dont mind it going either way, on the 'other game' some player are clearly off and the ref okays it, same for me, there have been times im 3-4 yards offside, get the linesman gets it wrong.
Down to personal preference.
MysteryMan
Registered User
They should let play go from offsides , if someone is in offside and he gets a pass but the opponent intercepts it don't stop the game , let it continue like in real life.
iamcanadianeh
Registered User
Yeah, that too. It's stuff like that that bothers me most.
shaun7
Registered User
Sometimes in reality, the offside is clear and yet, the goal is still given. I would like to see them in pes. It makes it realistic. I see these kind of mistakes in many games and I watch many football inculding serie A
and EPL. Sometimes even la liga and there will always be QUESTIONABLE REFEERING and offsides.
BTW, the offside rule in pes 09 works good in my opinion. Well much better than fifa 09's at least.
and EPL. Sometimes even la liga and there will always be QUESTIONABLE REFEERING and offsides.
Not always. Sometimes it truly is down to cheating.
BTW, the offside rule in pes 09 works good in my opinion. Well much better than fifa 09's at least.
iamcanadianeh
Registered User
Shaun7 - So you think that the CPU decided that it wanted to win and so it allowed an offside to slide? Ok. In those cases is it a marginal call or is it due to the problems like not allowing you to tag up properly or due to a riccochet off a defender where the referee should have allowed play to run on, etc? If it's the latter I can't see your argument because the problem is clearly due to across the board mistakes in the code, not intentionally scripted to happen at certain times (in other words it wil always happen under those or similar circumstances, as opposed to being triggered to happen when the cpu so chooses). If it's the former, I've never seen it and I think you have said that it doesn't happen yourself... So... What makes you decide it's cheating and not just poor programming? I'm not saying either is acceptable, but if what appears to be cheating can be explained in other ways then it's either a matter of opinion, or its simply a matter of what's more likely to be true. Again, if it's what's likely to be true then you have to ask yourself "why would Konami program cheating into the game?"
Hope I'm being clear and that I won't be flamed to death for asking what seem to me like pretty straightforward questions...
Hope I'm being clear and that I won't be flamed to death for asking what seem to me like pretty straightforward questions...
Amateur
Registered User
I hate off-sides that are NOT off-sides: it happens in REALITY -but- it is Impossible to Simulate.
Some things will never be possible on a Football Simulation: one of them should be bad referee calls, like off-sides that aren't off-sides.
Maybe include different types of referees: like for example a Referee that's more sensitive with Fouling, and a referee that allows all kinds of Fouls, etc, etc...
But a referee deciding to call an off-side when it isn't?? Impossible, leave that to Reality. This would Only be yet another "tool" for AI-Cheating:
* Scoring Random Corner Kicks.
* Your own defenders giving away Penalties without your consent.
* The Referee calling Off-Sides whenever he feels like it.
Personally, I think it's a blessing that we can have DECENT REFEREES on a Football Simulation. Unlike the Corrupt Ones we have in Real-Life.
This is one aspect of Football that's best left out of the game: base the game on SKILL, not LUCK.
Some things will never be possible on a Football Simulation: one of them should be bad referee calls, like off-sides that aren't off-sides.
Maybe include different types of referees: like for example a Referee that's more sensitive with Fouling, and a referee that allows all kinds of Fouls, etc, etc...
But a referee deciding to call an off-side when it isn't?? Impossible, leave that to Reality. This would Only be yet another "tool" for AI-Cheating:
* Scoring Random Corner Kicks.
* Your own defenders giving away Penalties without your consent.
* The Referee calling Off-Sides whenever he feels like it.
Personally, I think it's a blessing that we can have DECENT REFEREES on a Football Simulation. Unlike the Corrupt Ones we have in Real-Life.
This is one aspect of Football that's best left out of the game: base the game on SKILL, not LUCK.
MysteryMan
Registered User
Also one more thing , when you score from an offside you ALWAYS , and I mean ALWAYS run to the side and celebrate and then after some time the comments. say oh no no no , it was offside... COME ON , ALWAYS the same thing , at least make a few different things like scoring a goal and the ref rules offside and you immediatly notice and wave your hand cuz ur angry and etc....
shaun7
Registered User
The offsides do favour the AI more right?
But that's not the biggest problem.
When they want to score sometimes, they do it, even if it's offside. That's the cheating I was referring to.
For example.
If you have a player sent off, the game suddenly becomes different. The AI wil start to play alot harder and much faster that they will score even if it was offside.
What do you call that?
It happens in my brother's ML.
It's cheating. It's like the cpu allowed it to happen.
Was playing ML last night, im top of my league.. havent lost a game in the last 11 games etc. Played Rotterdamm last night, they are right at the bottom. Whatever i did i couldnt score, Rooney on top form missed from 4 yards out, they scored 2 goals in 2 attempts. It seemed whatever i did i could not score, this was after winning my last games 4-0, 4-1 etc.
Its just annoying, you miss some easy goals and you just think "okay.. the cpu wants me to lose one"
Its just annoying, you miss some easy goals and you just think "okay.. the cpu wants me to lose one"
Alolo91
Registered User
Was playing ML last night, im top of my league.. havent lost a game in the last 11 games etc. Played Rotterdamm last night, they are right at the bottom. Whatever i did i couldnt score, Rooney on top form missed from 4 yards out, they scored 2 goals in 2 attempts. It seemed whatever i did i could not score, this was after winning my last games 4-0, 4-1 etc.
Its just annoying, you miss some easy goals and you just think "okay.. the cpu wants me to lose one"
Happened to me too. My agbonlahor who has 99 in both top speed and accelaration and has scored like 35 goals half way in the league had problem running past bordeaux defenders. At the end i got lucky and scored a goal. This is 1 time out of 100 it happened to me. next time i will probably throw the controller at the wall because of the COM.
Sorry for my english.
Sabatasso
Banned
I think the scripting should be there, but implemented alot more subtle than it currently is.
When HJK Helsinki manages to pressure Barcelona non stop for 90 minutes on Camp Nou winning 0-3 on away field and Barca can't keep the ball for more than two-three passes the scripting is wrong.
If the same thing happened against Real Madrid or Juventus I would not object, because winning against high profile clubs should be hard but it isn't unless scripted.
But simply making your players hit the bar/post, GK's making those once in a lifetime saves would be enough scripting in my opinion.
When the scripts make your team unplayable it's too much.
PS. when i notice the scripting taking too much control over my players I instantly switch to dribbling mode, after alot of training I'm quite able to dribble across the field with any decent player and put the ball in the net, making at least a draw out of scripted matches.
When HJK Helsinki manages to pressure Barcelona non stop for 90 minutes on Camp Nou winning 0-3 on away field and Barca can't keep the ball for more than two-three passes the scripting is wrong.
If the same thing happened against Real Madrid or Juventus I would not object, because winning against high profile clubs should be hard but it isn't unless scripted.
But simply making your players hit the bar/post, GK's making those once in a lifetime saves would be enough scripting in my opinion.
When the scripts make your team unplayable it's too much.
PS. when i notice the scripting taking too much control over my players I instantly switch to dribbling mode, after alot of training I'm quite able to dribble across the field with any decent player and put the ball in the net, making at least a draw out of scripted matches.
iamcanadianeh
Registered User
I've asked this question before: "When you say the AI is offside, do you mean A.) marginally and due to a strict straight line that they are over, or B.) due to a mix up where a player is way offside, or shouldn't be considered offside because it riccocheted off another player, or the player should have been allowed to tag up but wasn't...?
I think that question is what's important because if it's B then it is obviously not due to intent on the CPU's part. The programming just was done poorly and they forgot to make it capable of making the right call under those circumstances. Sure, it might seem like cheating, but not everything is always as it appears...
Anyway, I just want to make sure I'm being perfectly clear what my take on this is. Not that it really matters, because if you want to think of it as cheating your certainly entitled to your opinion. I just want to stand up for those of us who don't see it that way.
PEACE
shaun7
Registered User
^Sometimes it is A and sometimes B. Both happens really.
Sometimes even in the replay they are offside, but anyway, it does happen in reality and I like that. I really do. It makes it realistic. However I don't like how this happens to AI controlled teams much more that with the team I am controlling.
Sometimes even in the replay they are offside, but anyway, it does happen in reality and I like that. I really do. It makes it realistic. However I don't like how this happens to AI controlled teams much more that with the team I am controlling.
Amateur
Registered User
The main problem with PES is that it always had, and apparently always will have AI-Cheating... too many things are decided by the COM -and- not by our actual skills as players. It's boring and repetitive.
The AI-Cheating is one of the Key LIMITING factors of the PES series... the sooner Konami fix this -the- sooner Pro Evolution will actually Evolve.
But instead of improving on it, Konami made it worst with next Gen Consoles... Now we barely even have control over anything:
* We barely have any Control when Defending.
* We barely have any control during Corner Kicks.
* We barely have any control when Passing the ball, at times you think that it's actually 6-Directional.
* We barely have any control over our Team's off-the-ball movement.
* We don't have any control over the "momentum shifts".
I think I've finally reached the point where I cannot play One Game of PES09. I have grown past that rubbish and want something better... I want a game based on SKILLS and not on LUCK.
And to be completely honest, there's nothing realistic about PES09, it's a pathetic attempt by Konami.
The only positives I can see are:
* Shooting feels better than in past years... but on the downside, too many "Slow Goals".
* Stamina is actually relevant in-game; players will get tired if over-used.
There's nothing else I can say about PES09, the rest of the game is complete rubbish.
The AI-Cheating is one of the Key LIMITING factors of the PES series... the sooner Konami fix this -the- sooner Pro Evolution will actually Evolve.
But instead of improving on it, Konami made it worst with next Gen Consoles... Now we barely even have control over anything:
* We barely have any Control when Defending.
* We barely have any control during Corner Kicks.
* We barely have any control when Passing the ball, at times you think that it's actually 6-Directional.
* We barely have any control over our Team's off-the-ball movement.
* We don't have any control over the "momentum shifts".
I think I've finally reached the point where I cannot play One Game of PES09. I have grown past that rubbish and want something better... I want a game based on SKILLS and not on LUCK.
And to be completely honest, there's nothing realistic about PES09, it's a pathetic attempt by Konami.
The only positives I can see are:
* Shooting feels better than in past years... but on the downside, too many "Slow Goals".
* Stamina is actually relevant in-game; players will get tired if over-used.
There's nothing else I can say about PES09, the rest of the game is complete rubbish.