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Stop The Scripted Cheating

Dale C.

Registered User
I think it is not only a bad thing that pes is scripted. Like some say: it makes the difference with fifa.


The thing is fifa is scripted in the same ways, but different ways.

Yeah in PES teams can randomly start playing brilliantly and score flukey goals, win every 50-50 etc etc

But in fifa say in manager mode or whatever, your team plays like Man Utd during home games, and like West Brom when they play away.

Just limiting the scripting argument to PES alone isn't fair, because it happens in both games.

Source : I own, and play, both games.
 

Amateur

Registered User
The thing is fifa is scripted in the same ways, but different ways.

Yeah in PES teams can randomly start playing brilliantly and score flukey goals, win every 50-50 etc etc

But in fifa say in manager mode or whatever, your team plays like Man Utd during home games, and like West Brom when they play away.

Just limiting the scripting argument to PES alone isn't fair, because it happens in both games.

Source : I own, and play, both games.

Could you elaborate a little on this??

I know that there is "scripting" in PES09... But I haven't heard or read anything about "scripting" in FIFA09. I haven't played FIFA09 very much (maybe a few games here and there) and so I haven't really noticed any AI-Cheating.

But I'm sure AI-Cheating is a part of both games. Although it seems like it is more obvious in PES than it is in FIFA. Anyways...

How does the AI cheat in FIFA?? Is it pretty much the same thing as in PES?
 

shaun7

Registered User
The thing is fifa is scripted in the same ways, but different ways.

Yeah in PES teams can randomly start playing brilliantly and score flukey goals, win every 50-50 etc etc

But in fifa say in manager mode or whatever, your team plays like Man Utd during home games, and like West Brom when they play away.

Just limiting the scripting argument to PES alone isn't fair, because it happens in both games.

Source : I own, and play, both games.

Maybe it is a bit scripted, because I am with Sampdoria on fifa 09, and Lecce are doing extremely well (stupid isn't it), and they are giving me a really hard time.
I mean that is a script, but with momentum. They are doing well, so they start playing really well.
Note: I am not saying fifa is better, but in case of cheating and scripting, fifa is more fair than pes.
 

Tech_Skill

Registered User
Could you elaborate a little on this??

I know that there is "scripting" in PES09... But I haven't heard or read anything about "scripting" in FIFA09. I haven't played FIFA09 very much (maybe a few games here and there) and so I haven't really noticed any AI-Cheating.

But I'm sure AI-Cheating is a part of both games. Although it seems like it is more obvious in PES than it is in FIFA. Anyways...

How does the AI cheat in FIFA?? Is it pretty much the same thing as in PES?

Nowwhere near as bad as PES 09, it happens occasionally to me on world class against the top teams, the worst was one time cambiasso scored a near crazy volley from a tight angle after the ball had deflected off their player, off mine and then to him.

In the 89th-90th min, to make it 1-1.

Sickening.

It does happen, and on legendary the CPU is relentless, however you can still beat the top team and have a good game of football, for me legendary is a bit end to end and certain players are crazy, like Berbatov ronaldo and rooney, but I still beat these teams when i played them. I prefer world class as a better balance.

But pes 2008 was the absolute worst of the worst, every time you score, the CPU will find a way to get one back, ive seen defender run away from attackers, stop still, a lone striker marked by 3 cb's and still rising above all of them to get the header in, its crazy.

So yea, fifa has it, but it doesnt ruin the game and its not even close to frequency it exists in pes 2008/9 where you sit there waiting and expecting for the CPU to get that cheap goal its been looking for.
 

Vitumbiko

Registered User
That's true Pes 2008 and 2009 were scripted! I remember I put this in one of the Pes 2008 forums and they laughed at me! :realmad: I'm glad some people have seen the truth! Pes 2009 and 2008 were SCRIPTED!
 

MatTheCat

Registered User
That's true Pes 2008 and 2009 were scripted! I remember I put this in one of the Pes 2008 forums and they laughed at me! :realmad: I'm glad some people have seen the truth! Pes 2009 and 2008 were SCRIPTED!

PES has always been scripted. But for me, it really started getting ugly with PES 6 where a complete n00b could beat a vet who had been playing the game for years simply down to 'luck'......artifically enforced AI luck that is! For me, PES 6 was the most scripted although maybe that is only because we would still play that game 'competitively' and the instances where the AI both totally assisted and also conspired against me are much more prominent in the mind. As for PES 2008, I never had a single game of that since Nov 2007, therefore I cant really comment.....

But PES 2009 is it scripted.....Of COURSE IT IS! But since every single one of my gaming mates now plays FIFA 09 and PES 2009 online is soo god damn awful, I dont get much 2 player action which is where the scripting is utterly most infuriating.

Does it make it seem like 'the real thing'....CERTAINLY NOT!


What you are complaining about is the fact that 80% of forum members are snotty nosed pig thick little brats. Anyone with any sense has acknowledged the game has been scripted for years, the fact that it is aint even up for debate.
 

shaun7

Registered User
^Fully agree on what you said especially on:
where a complete n00b could beat a vet who had been playing the game for years simply down to 'luck'......artifically enforced AI luck that is
This is the most annoying things in pes. I used to win alot in 2 player matches in pes 5 because that game was based on skill more than luck. But from pes 6, I started finding it much more difficult to beat a beginner who started to play it only for a week or so, while I masterd everything on it.
I just doesn't make sense.
 

Amateur

Registered User
I almost-always listen to whatever MatTheCat says because I can see he knows PES... I fully agree with him about: PES has always been scripted.

But I've never really understood why he's so negative about PES6.

I mean... Sure it is more Arcade-Like than PES5 and the AI-Cheating is more overwhelming. But the game also provides you with more control and responsiveness to counter against the AI-Cheating.

And sure, many times the COM makes the difference in a highly contested match. But still: when I play PES6 against human-opponents the game demands more skills than when I play PES09.

On the other hand, PES09 gives you less control over the AI-Cheating. The game is designed so that when you feel that the "momentum" is against you -you- use the (R2) Strategies.

When the momentum is against you: use the (R2) Strategies, set your Defensive Strategy, and then continue scoring Goals via Counter Attacks.

When the Momentum is against you -you- use the (R2) Strategies... when the momentum is back to normal you revert back into your standard Formation... it's the same procedure all the time and you have no control over it; you just use the (R2) Strategies whenever the COM tells you to.

If you do not use the (R2) Strategies when the momentum is against you... you'll get to see all the details involved in AI-Cheating:

* You see how your Center Backs leave their positions just so the COM can score an easy goal. This happens very consistently and it is completely out of your hands.

* You see how your players cannot give the simplest of passes. Many of your passes go horribly wrong for no apparent reason other than the COM deciding it should go wrong. This happens whenever the “momentum” is against you.

* You see how the COM suddenly becomes significantly stronger and faster than you: winning every loose ball and every "midfield battle".

* Players like John Terry running and accelerating past players like Fernando Torres.

* Whenever you (or the COM) score a Goal from a Corner Kick... you never now exactly WHY, you just Tap some buttons and at times the ball goes in, other times it doesn't. A "yes" or "no" routine completely decided by the COM.

* Your own Defenders giving away a Penalty without your consent.

* Samuel Eto'o literally running circles around my Defense.


This is Why PES09 becomes so predictable and repetitive after a few plays. Because we cannot manipulate How the Momentum changes throughout a game.

It is completely out of your hands. You are basically taking a ride with the COM: you tap a couple of buttons here and there, decide how and when to pass or shot the ball -but- do you have any control over your Team's off-the-ball movement??

This is a flaw that should have been fixed with Next Gen Consoles and -instead- of improving on it, Konami actually made it worst with the infamous "Teamvision".

I don't have a problem with the momentum changing because it happens in real-life... but I do have a problem with the fact that I cannot manipulate how the momentum changes in-game.

It's just a bit disappointing when you realize that the COM is dictating almost everything for you.

Konami must give us more control and freedom to make our Own Mistakes and our own brilliant moves. Many "hardcore" PES Fans have turned to FIFA09 because of this, there's less cheating involved; it's more about YOU, and less about the COM.
 

shaun7

Registered User
I play PES6 against human-opponents the game demands more skills than when I play PES09.
It is a bit more skill demanding rather, but not enough.
Pes 5 was more skill demanding rather than luck.
 

Amateur

Registered User
PES has always been scripted. But for me, it really started getting ugly with PES 6 where a complete n00b could beat a vet who had been playing the game for years simply down to 'luck'......artifically enforced AI luck that is! For me, PES 6 was the most scripted although maybe that is only because we would still play that game 'competitively' and the instances where the AI both totally assisted and also conspired against me are much more prominent in the mind. As for PES 2008, I never had a single game of that since Nov 2007, therefore I cant really comment.....

But PES 2009 is it scripted.....Of COURSE IT IS! But since every single one of my gaming mates now plays FIFA 09 and PES 2009 online is soo god damn awful, I dont get much 2 player action which is where the scripting is utterly most infuriating.

Does it make it seem like 'the real thing'....CERTAINLY NOT!


What you are complaining about is the fact that 80% of forum members are snotty nosed pig thick little brats. Anyone with any sense has acknowledged the game has been scripted for years, the fact that it is aint even up for debate.

Fully agree...

Anyways, I wanted to know which PES versions do you consider the best of the series: Could you give me your Top 2 versions??

In my opinion I'd say PES5 and PES6... but I don't really remember PES3.

But between PES5 and PES6; I think PES5 feels somehow "fresher" than PES6. But the big letdown for me is that in PES5 I find that there are excessive fouls... it is practically impossible to tackle someone without giving away a foul.

And the other big PES5-Negative is when Inside the Penalty Area, I would've liked a bit more control/responsiveness with players like Ronaldo and Van Nistelrooy.
 

wilsybill

Registered User
People still saying scripting doesn't exist when the games actual designer and maker says thast there is?! I think I'd believe him over the guys on this board who think that scripting doesn't exist.

It is SO annoying. It makes the game not fun anymore. Totally takes away any element of surprise. You actually know when the CPU is going to score etc. No matter what you do you can't prevent it. I have actually dropped to professional level, but alas it's still there.

I played a world cup as England. Drew with Italy first game - hard game but I didn't feel cheated (1-1). Got beat off Finland 1-0 despite having 12 shots ON target (they of course scored a last minute corner). Third game against Thailand! Not to worry, an easy 3 points there then - NOT! I got beat 3-2. I was all over them for the first 20 mins and went 1-0 up. Thailand then began to play better than Italy and I couldn't get the ball. They equalised and then went back to being rubbish. After half time I took the lead and once again Thailand became Brazil of the 70's and equalised. Then surprise, surprise last minute corner and I lose 3-2!!!

The scripting or momentum shifts are in there but they need to be a hell of a lot more subtle. I want to play a game where I don't feel cheated. Make it MORE SUBTLE!!!!!!!
 

Red Owl

Registered User
Either this vid is fake, or PES cheats/scripts and has done for years.

Obviously ive been playing PES for over 10 years, so I know the answers regardless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIZmQ7F1EZg

If anyone still wants to argue im happy to post another vid.

That's clearly cheating. But honestly, does that happen every game, all the time (like everyone is suggesting)? No, of course not. I've never seen anything like that AT ALL. I have seen about three things that come close:
1) a goal for ME, when the scorer was about 10 yards offside when the ball is played. Although it does also say that there was no assist (despite it being a blatant cross) so clearly it glitched and it somehow treated it as if a defender had intervened during the cross (which didn't happen).
2) a goal for ME, where I took a penalty low in the middle, the keeper stood still, it went through his legs (I'm sure we've all seen this) but then he saves it with his hand before ANY of the ball was over the goalline, let alone all of it. But it counted.
3) a random glitch that affected no-one. Twice, a player of mine has been badly fouled (on the turn, defender gets the supporting leg) and the player flies over, and his head twisted a full 360 degrees.

I've never had any Super Being (except Robbie Fowler) suddenly make the ball do a loop-de-loop in the air.



EDIT: that said, I have had games where the Com seemed to score with every attack. But usually they could miss anything. But when the Com is in a good mood, I have had some seriously fun games - a recent 5-4 win vs. Bolton springs to mind; 3-3 on 85mins, three late late goals.
 

shaun7

Registered User
^PES IS NOT BASED ON SKILL. IT'S BASED ON LUCK. Though you still ned skill to win, in 2 player matches, luck is the deciding factor. No skill needed.
Now back to AI cheating.
It does happen every game, but not extraordinay cheating. The AI players will always be better than you, but in some game they become supermen unlike in others.
 

Tech_Skill

Registered User
^PES IS NOT BASED ON SKILL. IT'S BASED ON LUCK. Though you still ned skill to win, in 2 player matches, luck is the deciding factor. No skill needed.
Now back to AI cheating.
It does happen every game, but not extraordinay cheating. The AI players will always be better than you, but in some game they become supermen unlike in others.

Spot on.

Little things that go on in every game.

Exhibit 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnz04pZfpB0

Actually this one is better Exhibit 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcnwsq-5Ob8

The scripting was the main reason i decided to give the other game a try, it's been ramped up under the guise of this team vision shite since pes 2008.

Pure rubbish once again from konami, thankfully, I can play a better game of football without constant AI cheating in it.
 

Amateur

Registered User
^PES IS NOT BASED ON SKILL. IT'S BASED ON LUCK. Though you still ned skill to win, in 2 player matches, luck is the deciding factor. No skill needed.
Now back to AI cheating.
It does happen every game, but not extraordinay cheating. The AI players will always be better than you, but in some game they become supermen unlike in others.

Fully agree...

But I think it's safe to say that the overwhelming "AI-Chetaing" is there because the game is extremely one-dimensional in many aspects:

* When Dribbling: "fake shot" all day long, it never fails to work and it requires zero level of skill.

* When Defending: run, run, run, run, run, and when you're close enough release some buttons... it almost never fails, and you don't even have to THINK. And again; it requires no level of skill... You do not have to Think about going Left, or Right, or Center. There's no depth to Marking and Tackling: therefore the COM decides many things for you.

* The Balance between Defenders and Attackers: plain out ridiculous, the Attackers have a huge advantage over the defenders... I can basically score goals at will because the Defenders don't have the STATS nor the Animations to counter against the twitchy "fake shot".

* Off-the-Ball Movement: Completely determined by the Team Formation and the COM. This is the Main Flaw with every PES title to date: The Team Formation determines the movements of the players. Tactical Movement should be directly linked to OFF-THE-BALL STATS.

* The list of one-dimensional things keeps going and going...

In short: I fully agree with Shaun7.
 

MatTheCat

Registered User
Anyways, I wanted to know which PES versions do you consider the best of the series: Could you give me your Top 2 versions??

In my opinion I'd say PES5 and PES6... but I don't really remember PES3.

In certain aspects, the series undoubtedly improves with each title albeit at the expense of the balance of overall gameplay. For me, PES3 was the pinnacle of the series in terms of gameplay balance. PES3 was the game that inspired the once monthly big tourneys between mates whereby we would have two groups of four in two rooms playing it out in a champions league style format with the semi-s and the grand final played in the front room with everyone watching. It was £5 per head entry and the winner took all (most) runner up got his fiver back. Great times were had. Then PES 4 came along and the sharks amongst us soon figured out that there were certain ways of trying to socre which paid great dividends such as the lob shots and of course PES4 saw the inception of the dreaded cut-back. The new found abundance of lame goals totally cheapened and hugely soured the tone of our little video soccer tourney get togethers. Our tourneys on PES 4 lasted till about Jan 2005 whereby they were disbanded. As a result of the new unimproved uberlame goal scoring methods, our tourneys left everyone wanting to break each others bones and almost caused a fight or two. For me, PES has never really recovered from PES4.

However, whilst I would state PES3 as being the ultimate PES I am well aware that by todays standards it simply would not do and that PES 3 would look and feel utter crap running alongside PES 2009. Despite the misdevelopment of the AI balance and the opening up of certain flaws in the AI which they (konami) simply cannot seem to iron out, the gameplay mechanics have improved vastly since PES's early days. So although I would love to say PES 3 rules over all other PES games. The fact remains that PES 2009 is the one I choose to play.

Spot on.

Little things that go on in every game.

Exhibit 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnz04pZfpB0

Actually this one is better Exhibit 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcnwsq-5Ob8

The scripting was the main reason i decided to give the other game a try, it's been ramped up under the guise of this team vision shite since pes 2008.

Although those animations were the physically impossible occurs could be seen as 'cheating'. It dont really encapsulate what the real scripting is all about. You know when the AI has got it in for you when you simply cannot play a ball to feet and all your players are misplaced whilst all your opponents players seem to be on top of everything for no reason that has anything to do with formation or gamepad imput. Then of course there is how things go in front of goal. In PES, we have a certain degree of control over how our shots are unleashed but ultimately, the AI holds the lionshare of what happens to the ball when it leaves our strikers head/foot. If the AI has decided that your team is just not going to have a lucky day then you simply will not be able to buy a decent goal whilst the slightest littel sniff at goal that your opponent gets can result in goals galore. We have all experienced this phenomenon time and time again with Pro Ev and we all know it has bugger all to do with how we or our opponents plays.

Of course, the way around this is ensure you have a team with fast dribbling players and simply exploit the games AI flaws. If you are persistent enough with this approach then you can always ensure that you will get goals no matter what and if you are playing against an opponent who doesn't like to play this way, then you can still easily win no matter what way the AI is scripting. But to be honest, when things get lowered to this level (as is the norm in national 'peswankings' tourneys), then you have got to question the purpose in bothering with it all in the first place.
 

Amateur

Registered User
In certain aspects, the series undoubtedly improves with each title albeit at the expense of the balance of overall gameplay. For me, PES3 was the pinnacle of the series in terms of gameplay balance. PES3 was the game that inspired the once monthly big tourneys between mates whereby we would have two groups of four in two rooms playing it out in a champions league style format with the semi-s and the grand final played in the front room with everyone watching. It was £5 per head entry and the winner took all (most) runner up got his fiver back. Great times were had. Then PES 4 came along and the sharks amongst us soon figured out that there were certain ways of trying to socre which paid great dividends such as the lob shots and of course PES4 saw the inception of the dreaded cut-back. The new found abundance of lame goals totally cheapened and hugely soured the tone of our little video soccer tourney get togethers. Our tourneys on PES 4 lasted till about Jan 2005 whereby they were disbanded. As a result of the new unimproved uberlame goal scoring methods, our tourneys left everyone wanting to break each others bones and almost caused a fight or two. For me, PES has never really recovered from PES4.

However, whilst I would state PES3 as being the ultimate PES I am well aware that by todays standards it simply would not do and that PES 3 would look and feel utter crap running alongside PES 2009. Despite the misdevelopment of the AI balance and the opening up of certain flaws in the AI which they (konami) simply cannot seem to iron out, the gameplay mechanics have improved vastly since PES's early days. So although I would love to say PES 3 rules over all other PES games. The fact remains that PES 2009 is the one I choose to play.

I'll see if I can borrow a copy of PES3.

But between PES5/PES6 and PES09: for me PES5 and PES6 are miles better -because- PES09 is not Football.

Football is all about Time and Space: I cannot get past the disproportions in Time and Space that I find in PES09. There's just no sense of Timing, you have all the Time in the world to think about whatever it is you're going to do next.

Too much running with the ball... not nearly enough Football Play.

To this I can add that Samuel Eto'o and every other fast player can literally run Circles around your defense... the Game simply doesn't feels like Football.

There are no Player Likenesses, Pace is hugely Overrated, Passing is dreadful -and- a very unrealistic amount of Space and Time.

On the other hand...

When I play PES5 or PES6: this games forced me into thinking faster, and in PES5 you could still contain Fast players... however this all changed with PES6 and PES08 and PES09.

When I play PES5 or PES6: although clearly one-dimensional and out of date, it feels like playing Football. The proportions in Space and Time are more realistic.

But the main flaw is that too many things feel like a "yes" or "no" routine... when I dribble past someone I never feel like I got through because of My Skill as a player, it feels like the COM allowed me to get past.

When I try to dribble past someone and fail; it feels like the COM decided I shouldn't get past... Unlucky I guess.

The Main Flaw is like Shaun7 mentioned; there's no SKILL involved, it's more about whatever the COM decides to do.

And of course...

The AI-Dictated "Momentum Shifts" that are scripted to go against you at some point in the game; this is when your Team's off-the-ball movement turns to shit for no particular reason... you have no control over this and you can only follow the Script.
 
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