is the AI cheating?
- Thread starter skickahit10
- Start date
Sabatasso
Banned
If you send all men in attack, the AI seems to back off a bit. So I don't feel it's any harder to defend when playing gung-ho to be honest. OK there are fewer defenders, but there are also fewer attackers, and less ping-pong so I actually do better that way. More clean sheets for some reason.
Since I started using Jenkey's tool, however, I can play more "normal" football though, and I prefer that in the end.
EDIT: (possibly a better, and quicker explanation)
The good old "if you score once, we'll score twice!" strategy seems to frighten the AI, as they seem to go 4-5-1 and have low attacking support once i do it.
4-4-2 / 4-3-3
Attacking Support 16 (ATTACK!)
Compactness 0 (Gangbang the ballcarrier)
Attacking Style 6 (Wide)
Pressing 10 (keep formation somewhat intact)
Def Line 10 (I would push it higher if I didn't have so slow CB's)
Seems to do the trick.
PS. This doesn't work too well against Jenkey's AI, as it uses smarter passes and less dribbling offensively.
Since I started using Jenkey's tool, however, I can play more "normal" football though, and I prefer that in the end.
EDIT: (possibly a better, and quicker explanation)
The good old "if you score once, we'll score twice!" strategy seems to frighten the AI, as they seem to go 4-5-1 and have low attacking support once i do it.
4-4-2 / 4-3-3
Attacking Support 16 (ATTACK!)
Compactness 0 (Gangbang the ballcarrier)
Attacking Style 6 (Wide)
Pressing 10 (keep formation somewhat intact)
Def Line 10 (I would push it higher if I didn't have so slow CB's)
Seems to do the trick.
PS. This doesn't work too well against Jenkey's AI, as it uses smarter passes and less dribbling offensively.
Sminky
Registered User
The Jenkey's AI alteration seems a must have but I'm not sure on reflection whether my laptop is going to cut the mustard.
skickahit10
Registered User
The only thing I want to get rid of is the AI's God-like super-duper-dribbling - something that I find completely unrealistic, since it happens regardless of which player/team the AI controls...it doesn't matter if it's Messi or some drunken bloke from Glasgow Rangers :no:
Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work on the demo (it just crashes when I try to start it), so I guess I'll have to wait one more week to see for myself.
Sometimes i think Konami intentionally gives us a half finished product, which jenkey completes it so easily :tongue:
You guys gotta admit though, the PES 2011 engine which is currently being used is pretty awesome; you have so much freedom to do anything you want with the game. I wonder if its possible to patch PES 2011 passing to the game; im pretty sure you can.
All Konami needs to do next year is improve animations, improve AI to the extent where the players in your team decides what style of play is the most efficient way of playing. Oh yeah the acceleration stat must come back.
Konami also should introduce a passing technique stat. The body position of the players and physical pressure from the opposition would determine how accurate and powerful the passes will go. This stat would also determine how precise outside foot and quick one touch passing for the player. Since awkward positioning passing or under pressure passing would make the passes less powerfull and accurate making the player lose possession often, the player would be forced to use carefull build up play, and be cautious when trying to string a few quick one touch passes with poor players. Vice versa when the player is playing with the likes of xavi and iniesta, it would encourage the player to execute those kind of passes.
It would compliment body balance(determines how much physical pressure the player is recieving), ball control(determines how quickly the player places the ball into the best passing body position), passing speed and acurracy and teamwork, and places another aspect of individualism.
All Jenkey or any other community patcher needs to do is fix up and polish the minor aspects of it; bam! one freakin awesome game. As long as the great community exists, I will always buy PES.
You guys gotta admit though, the PES 2011 engine which is currently being used is pretty awesome; you have so much freedom to do anything you want with the game. I wonder if its possible to patch PES 2011 passing to the game; im pretty sure you can.
All Konami needs to do next year is improve animations, improve AI to the extent where the players in your team decides what style of play is the most efficient way of playing. Oh yeah the acceleration stat must come back.
Konami also should introduce a passing technique stat. The body position of the players and physical pressure from the opposition would determine how accurate and powerful the passes will go. This stat would also determine how precise outside foot and quick one touch passing for the player. Since awkward positioning passing or under pressure passing would make the passes less powerfull and accurate making the player lose possession often, the player would be forced to use carefull build up play, and be cautious when trying to string a few quick one touch passes with poor players. Vice versa when the player is playing with the likes of xavi and iniesta, it would encourage the player to execute those kind of passes.
It would compliment body balance(determines how much physical pressure the player is recieving), ball control(determines how quickly the player places the ball into the best passing body position), passing speed and acurracy and teamwork, and places another aspect of individualism.
All Jenkey or any other community patcher needs to do is fix up and polish the minor aspects of it; bam! one freakin awesome game. As long as the great community exists, I will always buy PES.
skickahit10
Registered User
muscularmatt
Registered User
By definition, a video game AI does not "cheat". It isn't capable of doing so.
it doesn't cheat, but it is randomly scripted making it look like it cheats - it could be like 'when the the human scores, you, computer do anything to get another goal by mkaing them gving away balls at stupid times, killer though ball' this is what i mean by random scripting - the scripting isn't free
skickahit10
Registered User
Sabatasso
Banned
It's a good definition on a script that we'd rather not have in the game. The kinds of scripts that suddenly makes it impossible to stop the AI from scoring some outrageous goal, just to make it "extremely hard" to win stuff in PES.
Other scripts are fine, without them it wouldn't be a game. So that's why we call them "cheats".
But you already knew that, you just had to say what you did anyway
And before I never hear the end of it, no I don't mind losing a game.
Neox9114
Registered User
Neither is it "intelligent", yet that's what we call it
DAAAYYYUUUUMMMMMM. Nice burn.
Anyway, the AI does cheat, it knows when its not supposed to loose and dribbles its way out of trouble, I mean when Gerard Pique scores a goal after dribbling all the way from the back against 6 guys, you know something is not right.
StringerBell
Registered User
At that point you should just tackle. I've never had a CB score on me just once and that was Lucio and he does that in real life so I was okay with it. But memory serves correct Pique gets the odd goal from time to time as well.
As a side point how are people's pens in the game?
I played it throughout yesterday trying this that and had four or five pens, which was unusually high. Mostly fouls on Suarez.
However I missed all of them. One was bottom left with Adam, one was bottom right with Adam, one was right with Gerrard and one was right with Suarez!?!
So that's four out of four pens missed?!? Just coincidence or more cheating AI?
I played it throughout yesterday trying this that and had four or five pens, which was unusually high. Mostly fouls on Suarez.
However I missed all of them. One was bottom left with Adam, one was bottom right with Adam, one was right with Gerrard and one was right with Suarez!?!
So that's four out of four pens missed?!? Just coincidence or more cheating AI?
phillyfan23
Registered User
for people who claim comeback and cheating AI in this game, what game modes do you play?
I am very aware of this disease in sports games NHL, Fifa, madden, etc and have heard many many claims in PES over the years. I don't care how good the gameplay is, the graphics, if any FIBER of comeback AI is in the gameplay, to me the game is trash. But I can say with confidence that I have never felt cheating AI in PES when playing EXHIBITION mode.
I play my games on professional this year on 2012 and I haven't felt comeback/cheating AI at all. I don't play top player ( the level i've played in all my years of pro evo) because every team plays great.
But anyways, for the people that see the cheating AI, please try exhibition mode for the next 5-7 games and see how it is. I could be wrong with this theory, but who knows?
EXAMPLE:
played Parma using Juventus in exhibition mode, professional diff. with 0pass assist. I won 4-0....all my goals strangely enough came in the 1st half. Halftime, I switched my tactics to super conservative and kept the lead very safely.
Game ended with me shooting 16 times ( 8 on goal) and Parma 8 times ( 0 on goal)
posession 55/45 Juventus.
felt like any other PES iteration game: ratings/form, physics, execution, and luck rule the outcome as it should.
I am very aware of this disease in sports games NHL, Fifa, madden, etc and have heard many many claims in PES over the years. I don't care how good the gameplay is, the graphics, if any FIBER of comeback AI is in the gameplay, to me the game is trash. But I can say with confidence that I have never felt cheating AI in PES when playing EXHIBITION mode.
I play my games on professional this year on 2012 and I haven't felt comeback/cheating AI at all. I don't play top player ( the level i've played in all my years of pro evo) because every team plays great.
But anyways, for the people that see the cheating AI, please try exhibition mode for the next 5-7 games and see how it is. I could be wrong with this theory, but who knows?
EXAMPLE:
played Parma using Juventus in exhibition mode, professional diff. with 0pass assist. I won 4-0....all my goals strangely enough came in the 1st half. Halftime, I switched my tactics to super conservative and kept the lead very safely.
Game ended with me shooting 16 times ( 8 on goal) and Parma 8 times ( 0 on goal)
posession 55/45 Juventus.
felt like any other PES iteration game: ratings/form, physics, execution, and luck rule the outcome as it should.
Ali
It is happening again
@phillyfan23
The cheating can be quite obvious to spot sometimes. After years of playing PES, I can spot 80% of goals coming before the opposition comes anywhere near my box. This counts for multiplayer too. Things to spot:
-The AI suddenly coming "alive" after spending most of the match doing sod all.
-Your passes not going where you told them to go.
-Your players slowing down.
-Your players not moving where you tell them to move.
-The majority of so called "50/50" challenges not going your way in the build up.
-The keeper spilling it DIRECTLY to the opposition attacker.
It's easier to spot if you reframe from calling it "cheating", and instead call it "scripting". I can even spot a lot of my goals coming. On PES 2011, if I'm playing against my brother and score a goal I KNEW I was gonna score, I'd even apologise to him.
To me, spotting the scripting in PES is like riding a bike. Once it "clicks", it won't go away.
The cheating can be quite obvious to spot sometimes. After years of playing PES, I can spot 80% of goals coming before the opposition comes anywhere near my box. This counts for multiplayer too. Things to spot:
-The AI suddenly coming "alive" after spending most of the match doing sod all.
-Your passes not going where you told them to go.
-Your players slowing down.
-Your players not moving where you tell them to move.
-The majority of so called "50/50" challenges not going your way in the build up.
-The keeper spilling it DIRECTLY to the opposition attacker.
It's easier to spot if you reframe from calling it "cheating", and instead call it "scripting". I can even spot a lot of my goals coming. On PES 2011, if I'm playing against my brother and score a goal I KNEW I was gonna score, I'd even apologise to him.
To me, spotting the scripting in PES is like riding a bike. Once it "clicks", it won't go away.
For me Top Player is the biggest problem. I am probably around mid-table in my Top League league and had a barrage of people telling me to drop down a level because I wasn't good enough on Top Player. Top Player however is just a cheat fest. If I drop the game down to Professional I find almost all of the cheats go away, but then I win 4-0 against Man Utd which I did yesterday.
The frustrating thing then is when you go back to Top Player you know that almost all of the time the CPU can only beat you with these so called scripts kicking in all over the place. Why just take the scripts out and introduce more build up play so that the CPU can move you about more.
Here me go again, and I'm not going to apologise for it, but I honestly can't remember the old PES games (5and6 specifically) being like this. The last game of PES on PS2 I had Madrid beat me fair and square and annihilated me with football. Their build up play was excellent.
And yet here we are years down the line and we have to rely on bullshit scripting to decide games. It beggars belief, but yesterday I had a game v Bolton that I knew was totally scripted. Carroll missed a header which hit the bar from three yards, then missed a one on one. Fair enough, it happens. Adam missed a sitter with no pressure from twelve yards on his strong foot. In between their keeper makes a string of fine saves, I have 65% possession. Just before the full time whistle a lovely move fell to Gerrard twelve yards out on the half volley, keeper makes ANOTHER worldy. Then would you believe almost the last kick of the game the CPU crosses it in from a rubbish angle (not the by line) to where Klasnic (I think) was being marked by Carragher only for Jamie to step up and leave him totally free. One nil to Bolton. They had 3 shots on goal, 1 on target (the goal) I had 15 (8 on target). And 62% possession.
Then the next game I scored a lobby rubbish goal with Adam in which their keeper comes off his line to be lobbed lol, and then a deflection from Downing which goes about one mile an hour passed the keepers near post, even though he was on the near post anyway.
Man it's simply all over the place on Top Player. So for me, professional too easy, and Top Player too scripted/cheaty.
The frustrating thing then is when you go back to Top Player you know that almost all of the time the CPU can only beat you with these so called scripts kicking in all over the place. Why just take the scripts out and introduce more build up play so that the CPU can move you about more.
Here me go again, and I'm not going to apologise for it, but I honestly can't remember the old PES games (5and6 specifically) being like this. The last game of PES on PS2 I had Madrid beat me fair and square and annihilated me with football. Their build up play was excellent.
And yet here we are years down the line and we have to rely on bullshit scripting to decide games. It beggars belief, but yesterday I had a game v Bolton that I knew was totally scripted. Carroll missed a header which hit the bar from three yards, then missed a one on one. Fair enough, it happens. Adam missed a sitter with no pressure from twelve yards on his strong foot. In between their keeper makes a string of fine saves, I have 65% possession. Just before the full time whistle a lovely move fell to Gerrard twelve yards out on the half volley, keeper makes ANOTHER worldy. Then would you believe almost the last kick of the game the CPU crosses it in from a rubbish angle (not the by line) to where Klasnic (I think) was being marked by Carragher only for Jamie to step up and leave him totally free. One nil to Bolton. They had 3 shots on goal, 1 on target (the goal) I had 15 (8 on target). And 62% possession.
Then the next game I scored a lobby rubbish goal with Adam in which their keeper comes off his line to be lobbed lol, and then a deflection from Downing which goes about one mile an hour passed the keepers near post, even though he was on the near post anyway.
Man it's simply all over the place on Top Player. So for me, professional too easy, and Top Player too scripted/cheaty.
phillyfan23
Registered User
@ Ali...
What game mode are you experiencing cheating AI?
I've played exhibitions exclusively and I just don't feel the cheating AI.
if i played ML maybe I would see, and yes spotting cheating/comeback AI is very easy. In EA nhl, it is the same thing. When you get a lead, your goalie playes like a 6th grade goalie.
But to be honest, I have never experienced cheating AI in exhibition mode.
Please try 5 games of exhibition mode, pro setting, -2 game speed, 0 assist and see how it is.
What game mode are you experiencing cheating AI?
I've played exhibitions exclusively and I just don't feel the cheating AI.
if i played ML maybe I would see, and yes spotting cheating/comeback AI is very easy. In EA nhl, it is the same thing. When you get a lead, your goalie playes like a 6th grade goalie.
But to be honest, I have never experienced cheating AI in exhibition mode.
Please try 5 games of exhibition mode, pro setting, -2 game speed, 0 assist and see how it is.
I just wrote a little piece saying how refreshing the game seemed on the PC. Yes the graphics are better and I said the gameplay was a joy.
THEN I went into Master League to give it a go on the PC - different story!!! LOL
So you're right phillyfan23, I think the 'cheating' just comes alive in Master League.
I had a brilliant 0-0 draw v Arsenal on the PC on exhibition, it was a pure joy. Then I tried a Master League campaign and lost to Bolton 4-0 in which Klasnic and Davies played like Pele and Maradona combined, they barged forward at every opportunity instead of passing it like in exhibition mode, I lost all response with regards to player switching and my players started to wander. Quite simply, it was shit.
WHY DO KONAMI FK UP THE GAME LIKE THIS - why do they have to have this stupid blatant scripting in which Bolton scored some of the most bizarre scripted shit ever and my players were missing from twelve yards and in space. It's just ludicrous.
THEN I went into Master League to give it a go on the PC - different story!!! LOL
So you're right phillyfan23, I think the 'cheating' just comes alive in Master League.
I had a brilliant 0-0 draw v Arsenal on the PC on exhibition, it was a pure joy. Then I tried a Master League campaign and lost to Bolton 4-0 in which Klasnic and Davies played like Pele and Maradona combined, they barged forward at every opportunity instead of passing it like in exhibition mode, I lost all response with regards to player switching and my players started to wander. Quite simply, it was shit.
WHY DO KONAMI FK UP THE GAME LIKE THIS - why do they have to have this stupid blatant scripting in which Bolton scored some of the most bizarre scripted shit ever and my players were missing from twelve yards and in space. It's just ludicrous.
its not the AI cheating its just ur playing as Liverpool, easy fix to this problem just go a half decent team instead, simples :tongue: