Konami, please take action, or we take action!

[MachineHead]

So stop making it sound like it's a wild beast of an experiment that is out of control and that no one knows whats going on or where it is headed. Its a software development process no different from any other software development procedure.

Dude, if that's the case, Konami's coders are the most amateur idiots the game industry has ever seen. The game has taken steps backwards ffs. They do not listen to the fans. At all. They listen to the crowd.

 

[sandaweches]

I agree. I wasn't saying that they are doing a good job of incorporating feedback. All I was trying to point out was the issue of software development cycle.

Perhaps Konami got complacent for a while. But it seems both the updates that they provide and the acknowledgment of PESgaming seem to be recent changes that Konami is taking.

 

[iamcanadianeh]

Dude, if that's the case, Konami's coders are the most amateur idiots the game industry has ever seen. The game has taken steps backwards ffs. They do not listen to the fans. At all. They listen to the crowd.

I'm sure you could do much better. :erm:

 

[MachineHead]

I'm sure you could do much better. :erm:

Heh... well. That's not the case. I'm not a coder at all. But I've seen it done 1000 times better, and I bet Konami isn't doing the best they can. Because they have a permanent fanbase, they develop games with minimal costs(not counting graphics cause they're a must in order to have people buy the product).

I agree. I wasn't saying that they are doing a good job of incorporating feedback. All I was trying to point out was the issue of software development cycle.

Yea. I think it's the development cycle that fucks up sports games. Why would those in charge develop a long lasting product when they know they won't be in charge in the next project. There's no innovation. New features like, say, BAL pop up now and then, but they end up being half-finished and are there only to make nice first impressions and have people make the decision to buy.

 

[OCKRASS]

Heh... well. That's not the case. I'm not a coder at all. But I've seen it done 1000 times better, and I bet Konami isn't doing the best they can. Because they have a permanent fanbase, they develop games with minimal costs(not counting graphics cause they're a must in order to have people buy the product).



Yea. I think it's the development cycle that fucks up sports games. Why would those in charge develop a long lasting product when they know they won't be in charge in the next project. There's no innovation. New features like, say, BAL pop up now and then, but they end up being half-finished and are there only to make nice first impressions and have people make the decision to buy.

I am newbie to the forum...but not to PES and honestly the game is still garbage.

I do not need to point out the annoying problems with the game but I am sure others will agree the game is at a standstill at this point. Nothing amazing about the game anymore. Just knock the ball around and hope it goes in the direction you want it to.

Konami suck balls.

 

[tosheus]

This a game not a Nasa exploration project! on what basis are you even talking about programming and program management? and what are you talking about regarding programmers not meeting each other and that they don't have an understanding of the program as a whole?!?!? where did u get that info from?!?

off coarse the program takes effort to design and build, but it is "very very complicated" to you because you are not in game development.

Now the deficiencies that you see in the game, be it glitches or AI stuff are software bugs that are inevitable in software development. Some are even related to features or functionalities they decide to implement. With feedback, the programmers can enhance or modify the code to cater for the majority of PES gamers.

the "tweaking" that you guys are talking about is a continual process and even if they waited for two years (as some have mentioned) there will still be bugs and fixes and features that some won't like. in every software development process there is design, development and testing before the final release. Some bugs can be undetected and thus customers report such bugs back to Konami. Some feature likes/dislikes are also reported back to the company and then they have to prioritize all the "list of to-do's" and decide which to do for the next release.

so it's only natural to release games annually and gradually modify them to suit their customers' needs. Since Konami now seems to be aware of the pesgaming community's issue with the game most certainly they will use that info to update the game for next releases.

So stop making it sound like it's a wild beast of an experiment that is out of control and that no one knows whats going on or where it is headed. Its a software development process no different from any other software development procedure.

hmmm.... well i've read with interest as everyone seems to have came to the same conclusion.. 'I'll put up with it. hope the next one's good though...' the age old saying, 'man fears change,' seems to be the rule.. let's be honest. it's a fuckin joke. they put it out, we buy it...... why should they take pride in it? they've got there buying fan base. it's human nature to exploit a situation when you're getting your own way, why should a multi million pound corporation be any different. i'm growing quite close to binning the ML, BAL etc.. and just playing between friends.. it is a good game i suppose, but not to someone who's played it for the last 5/6 years... the underlying theme seems to be, 'that'll do,' coming from the konami camp, each year we're dissapointed... and as for the programming and creation being a slow process, fuck that. i'm not having that.. it's there fuckin job. i'm a joiner, the only time fitting a kitchen is a slow process is when i can't be arsed.. let' be honest again... we all love football, but the new pro evo's shit.. and it fuckin is. they're sitting at there desks laughing at us... and i don't fuckin blame them..

 

[Du 1337]

I know those things are annoying as hell, but I just can't take the CD out of my XBOX360 .

 

[WEFORLIFE]

I am happy because the fans, most of them are loyal die hard fans, who don't like PES2009 already gave Konami a good lesson. This will probably give Konami real pressure to make a good game which will win back the fans, push up the sales, just like in the past! The significant drop in sales proof that this latest PES is a shit! Simple fact. Most of the fans left Konami. There must be some reason. Whatever the reasons it is, sure it it a bad one.

 

[Hans Hitman]

This a game not a Nasa exploration project! on what basis are you even talking about programming and program management? and what are you talking about regarding programmers not meeting each other and that they don't have an understanding of the program as a whole?!?!? where did u get that info from?!?

Um, I have previously worked in software development. That comment came from a conversation I had with my brother, who is a software developer, and was comparing PES to the program that he works on. My best friend was lead programmer for a major EA Sports game for several years. Who the f@*# are you?

 

[byondthought]

Konami should start releasing PES every 2 Years, this Yearly Tweaks aren't worth the money. I'm definitely not buying PES 2010 if the animations and movements remain the same.

And if the "programmers are probably afraid to tweak anything very much for fear that the whole thing will stop working" -- what's the point of Next Gen Consoles if nobody knows how to make them work ??

I think it's ridiculous, if it weren't for the "Blu Ray" player I'd say it's a scam.

compare the first ps2 games to the last...

 

[Dale C.]

hmmm.... well i've read with interest as everyone seems to have came to the same conclusion.. 'I'll put up with it. hope the next one's good though...' the age old saying, 'man fears change,' seems to be the rule.. let's be honest. it's a fuckin joke. they put it out, we buy it...... why should they take pride in it? they've got there buying fan base. it's human nature to exploit a situation when you're getting your own way, why should a multi million pound corporation be any different. i'm growing quite close to binning the ML, BAL etc.. and just playing between friends.. it is a good game i suppose, but not to someone who's played it for the last 5/6 years... the underlying theme seems to be, 'that'll do,' coming from the konami camp, each year we're dissapointed... and as for the programming and creation being a slow process, fuck that. i'm not having that.. it's there fuckin job. i'm a joiner, the only time fitting a kitchen is a slow process is when i can't be arsed.. let' be honest again... we all love football, but the new pro evo's shit.. and it fuckin is. they're sitting at there desks laughing at us... and i don't fuckin blame them..

That is a fucking top post mate.

 

[sandaweches]

Um, I have previously worked in software development. That comment came from a conversation I had with my brother, who is a software developer, and was comparing PES to the program that he works on. My best friend was lead programmer for a major EA Sports game for several years. Who the f@*# are you?

I'm a software development engineer.

 

[alonCFC]

well if bothe of you are software engeneers, who is right?

 

[gunmen]

I have been supporting Winning Eleven since Winning Eleven 6. I leave FIFA and change to Winning Eleven. Almost all my friends do the same, almost at the same time. We love this game so much. The game is so realistic, and the game play system was a good one. We all love to play Winning Eleven.
BUT, UNFORTUNATELY, We all bought the latest Winning Eleven 2009. To be honest…we are all very disappointed and feel angry. The game just have so many many many stupid flaws.
1) The Passing now is so awful. VERY OFTEN, you can’t even successfully pass to a nearby teammate. WHY? This is very annoying. This is so UNREALISTIC! Sometimes, it give us impressions that all the players in the game are retarded. Can’t even deliver a normal pass. The passing is always not to the direction which you want or it ALWAYS FAIL to deliver the ball EVEN to your nearest teammate. ALWAYS the teammate must run to another direction to pick the lose ball, which is supposed be delivered to his feet!
2) When an opponent player are running down the flank near the line, ALWAYS the AI will automatically send my side back and center back to run towards the opponent player WITHOUT I pressing the square button (team mate pressure)! Why? When we only press X button, and the cursor is on the nearest player to the opponent, Why the other teammate still running to the opponent’s direction like we had pressed the square button?
3) WHY CPU ALWAYS SLIDE TACKLE WITHOUT OUR COMMAND!!!!!??????? WHY?????!!!!!
4) THE Running is so stupid !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY AMF ALWAYS not in the position to attack??? When we have the chance to launch a counter attack, ALWAYS, the strikers are standing too far always from all the teammates! Usually, in all the previous series, when we successfully halt opponent’s attack and turn it into a counter attack, we will always play a fast passing game in order to create a deadly counter attack, eg. (just only one of the method) Defender gets ball (near to own penalty box) , pass to DMF or CMF (at center midfield), then from DMF or CMF to AMF (further midfield), then from AMF to striker. All the passing need to be done in very fast way. BUT IN 2009!, ALWAYS! Front line attacking midfielders are always not there, and yet, the strikers are either IN OWN HALF(dreaming, thus not ready to counter attack!) or there is no midfielders at front line ready to receive ball and make the final pass to the strikers!!! The gap between the nearest teammate to the strikers are CRAZY!
5) THE game just stop even when you are attacking AND you already reached the opponent’s penalty box!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!! I almost THROW my controller!!!! EVEN CRAZY is one time, the opponent’s defender make a stupid pass to my striker, and you know what, the whistle blows! =.=!!!
6) Shoot! Hahaha…… I really can’t believe that even the top striker in the world just always shoot direct to the goalkeeper or ALWAYS SHOOT WIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hahahahaha……Sad that Konami make the game stupid rather than develop AI……..
7) CAN ANYONE TEACH ME HOW TO DELIVER A PROPER FREEKICK????????????? CAN KONAMI PLEASE TEACH US??????????????????????????????? PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE?!!???!!!
8) Others…
We all feel so sad, disappointed, angry. We can’t believe that KONAMI launch a product which have so many flaws.. Believe me, I never complaint about Winning Eleven. We all love Winning Eleven. Thus, we urge KONAMI to really conduct research to your latest WE product, WE 2009. Know the problems and not to repeat in next game! If you would want to know more, if you care, you could just search in this forum to find out more of the problem exists in this game. SERIOUSLY, we are shocked, still unable to believe that KONAMI has launch this game which has so many flaws, which has KILL it’s beautiful and realistic game play. No more fun when we play it.
Please, If you still love us, please don’t repeat same problem. Don’t force your fans to abandon you. We change from Fifa to WE. We can also change from WE to others or back to FIFA, which we really do not want it to happen. Don’t take the fans loyalty as granted.

PES 2009 is not so good. I can't understand that!!!!

 

[Amateur]

I am newbie to the forum...but not to PES and honestly the game is still garbage.

I do not need to point out the annoying problems with the game but I am sure others will agree the game is at a standstill at this point. Nothing amazing about the game anymore. Just knock the ball around and hope it goes in the direction you want it to.

Konami suck balls.

Completely agree... if I had to describe PES09 in the shortest term possible, I would say it is "mind numbingly boring".

The definition of mind numbingly boring is -- PES09.

PES09 is basically taking a ride with the COM. You never know when a pass will go in the direction you want it to, you can barely even measure the pace on the pass, dribbling with the ball feels more like plain running, the defensive side of the game is plain laughable... etc, etc..

The COM dictates everything for you, the off-the-ball movement, passing, tackling... and all we can do is decide When to shot or pass the ball.

PES09 and PES08 are poor efforts from Konami, I cannot say anything else about them.

It's a kid's game in a Next Gen Console.

 

[El Nino]

Completely agree... if I had to describe PES09 in the shortest term possible, I would say it is "mind numbingly boring".

The definition of mind numbingly boring is -- PES09.

PES09 is basically taking a ride with the COM. You never know when a pass will go in the direction you want it to, you can barely even measure the pace on the pass, dribbling with the ball feels more like plain running, the defensive side of the game is plain laughable... etc, etc..

The COM dictates everything for you, the off-the-ball movement, passing, tackling... and all we can do is decide When to shot or pass the ball.

PES09 and PES08 are poor efforts from Konami, I cannot say anything else about them.

It's a kid's game in a Next Gen Console.

Well said.

 

[wintermute00]

I just snapped my copy of PES in half after one too many wasted evenings of watching the AI just ratched up the opposing team's stats by like 50% (you can SEE them going gonzo), win every second ball, every richochet falls perfectly for them, they can tackle you cleanly from behind, their CB outsprints your speed 90+ striker with a yard head start etc. events.

STOP THE FRIGGIN CHEATING AND FOR F--K'S SAKE MAKE YOUR PLAYERS NOT RETARDED. When my fullback gets the ball FFS THE WINGER SHOUDL RUN FORWARDS NOT BACWARDS TOWARDS YOU . OPPOSING CBs SHOUDL NOT CRYUFF TURN AROUND YOUR FORWARDS WHENEVER THE COM DECIDES IT WANTS TO WIN. When you pass to an open player, YOUR PLAYER SHOULD NOT DECIDE TO PASS TO THE GUY BEING DOUBLE MARKED WHICH IS 90 DEGREES FROM THE DIRECTION YOU PRESSED.

etc. etc. etc. OH WHY did Konami decide on AI sabotage?!@?#

Why is it when my player loses the ball, the teammate right behind him looks at it stupidly whislt the computer player 3-4 metres away casually strolls up and takes possession:!@?#

Why is it when there is a loose ball in the opposition's area, and my player is running onto it, he always takes a touch no matter if I lightly tap shoot or I mash it frantically?!?@

Why is there no way to jump and chest the ball down without heading it, when the computer can jump in front of me and steal it every time even if I have 90 balance and am standing in front of him?!? Super cancel or not.

Why is is crossing so borked that your player never aims for the guy making the far or near post run, no matter which way you try to aim????

Why is it that when the computer feels like scoring it will just make your CPU controlled CB take a 3-4 metre wander from the opposition striker, who will prompty receive a 40 yard along the ground pass and shoot perfectly? Or just even plainer win a set piece (total lottery in the game as long as you hit it just under half the power bar then pray) and head home from it with you having ZERO chance to change the outcome?

Why does the computer MAGICALLY CHANGE WHICH PLAYER YOU ARE CONTROLLING WHEN YOU ARE DEFENDING?!?@# And in that split second whilst you get your bearings they get in behind you???

AI sabotage ruined Pro Evo.

After disappointment after disappointment (after Pro evo 6) this is the last time I waste my money on this once beloved franchise.

 

[MysteryMan]

I just snapped my copy of PES in half after one too many wasted evenings of watching the AI just ratched up the opposing team's stats by like 50% (you can SEE them going gonzo), win every second ball, every richochet falls perfectly for them, they can tackle you cleanly from behind, their CB outsprints your speed 90+ striker with a yard head start etc. events.

STOP THE FRIGGIN CHEATING AND FOR F--K'S SAKE MAKE YOUR PLAYERS NOT RETARDED. When my fullback gets the ball FFS THE WINGER SHOUDL RUN FORWARDS NOT BACWARDS TOWARDS YOU . OPPOSING CBs SHOUDL NOT CRYUFF TURN AROUND YOUR FORWARDS WHENEVER THE COM DECIDES IT WANTS TO WIN. When you pass to an open player, YOUR PLAYER SHOULD NOT DECIDE TO PASS TO THE GUY BEING DOUBLE MARKED WHICH IS 90 DEGREES FROM THE DIRECTION YOU PRESSED.

etc. etc. etc. OH WHY did Konami decide on AI sabotage?!@?#

Why is it when my player loses the ball, the teammate right behind him looks at it stupidly whislt the computer player 3-4 metres away casually strolls up and takes possession:!@?#

Why is it when there is a loose ball in the opposition's area, and my player is running onto it, he always takes a touch no matter if I lightly tap shoot or I mash it frantically?!?@

Why is there no way to jump and chest the ball down without heading it, when the computer can jump in front of me and steal it every time even if I have 90 balance and am standing in front of him?!? Super cancel or not.

Why is is crossing so borked that your player never aims for the guy making the far or near post run, no matter which way you try to aim????

Why is it that when the computer feels like scoring it will just make your CPU controlled CB take a 3-4 metre wander from the opposition striker, who will prompty receive a 40 yard along the ground pass and shoot perfectly? Or just even plainer win a set piece (total lottery in the game as long as you hit it just under half the power bar then pray) and head home from it with you having ZERO chance to change the outcome?

Why does the computer MAGICALLY CHANGE WHICH PLAYER YOU ARE CONTROLLING WHEN YOU ARE DEFENDING?!?@# And in that split second whilst you get your bearings they get in behind you???

AI sabotage ruined Pro Evo.

After disappointment after disappointment (after Pro evo 6) this is the last time I waste my money on this once beloved franchise.

Touche

 

[Ravex]

I just noticed the whole freekick rant at the beginning of the thread.

I never played PES before 09. And I can score on freekicks quite easily, given that I have a pretty decent kicker.

Practice makes perfect.

 

[sandaweches]

I just snapped my copy of PES in half after one too many wasted evenings of watching the AI just ratched up the opposing team's stats by like 50% (you can SEE them going gonzo), win every second ball, every richochet falls perfectly for them, they can tackle you cleanly from behind, their CB outsprints your speed 90+ striker with a yard head start etc. events.

STOP THE FRIGGIN CHEATING AND FOR F--K'S SAKE MAKE YOUR PLAYERS NOT RETARDED. When my fullback gets the ball FFS THE WINGER SHOUDL RUN FORWARDS NOT BACWARDS TOWARDS YOU . OPPOSING CBs SHOUDL NOT CRYUFF TURN AROUND YOUR FORWARDS WHENEVER THE COM DECIDES IT WANTS TO WIN. When you pass to an open player, YOUR PLAYER SHOULD NOT DECIDE TO PASS TO THE GUY BEING DOUBLE MARKED WHICH IS 90 DEGREES FROM THE DIRECTION YOU PRESSED.

etc. etc. etc. OH WHY did Konami decide on AI sabotage?!@?#

Why is it when my player loses the ball, the teammate right behind him looks at it stupidly whislt the computer player 3-4 metres away casually strolls up and takes possession:!@?#

Why is it when there is a loose ball in the opposition's area, and my player is running onto it, he always takes a touch no matter if I lightly tap shoot or I mash it frantically?!?@

Why is there no way to jump and chest the ball down without heading it, when the computer can jump in front of me and steal it every time even if I have 90 balance and am standing in front of him?!? Super cancel or not.

Why is is crossing so borked that your player never aims for the guy making the far or near post run, no matter which way you try to aim????

Why is it that when the computer feels like scoring it will just make your CPU controlled CB take a 3-4 metre wander from the opposition striker, who will prompty receive a 40 yard along the ground pass and shoot perfectly? Or just even plainer win a set piece (total lottery in the game as long as you hit it just under half the power bar then pray) and head home from it with you having ZERO chance to change the outcome?

Why does the computer MAGICALLY CHANGE WHICH PLAYER YOU ARE CONTROLLING WHEN YOU ARE DEFENDING?!?@# And in that split second whilst you get your bearings they get in behind you???

AI sabotage ruined Pro Evo.

After disappointment after disappointment (after Pro evo 6) this is the last time I waste my money on this once beloved franchise.

I feel your pain dude. PES09 AI sucks. I was enjoying bal for a while but after couple of weeks I could not take anymore of it. Tried ML and I could not tolerate that for more than couple of games let alone finish a season. The gameplay is just awful, especially the ICE SKATING players. what happened to the solid gameplay?!??!??

I did switch to PS2 and I was amazed at the difference. The AI is much better. The SB and SMFs do what they are supposed to do and go up to support the attack.

Since I only played PES09 on PS3, I have disconnected the whole thing, brought back my PS2 and I'm enjoying it much more. the passes leading up to the goal, the goal itself feels much better.

I'm also putting up my PS3 + pes09 on sale, and No i'm not waiting to see how PES 2010 looks like. I do not find my money hanging on the tree and I don't intend to smoke it either. It's a combination of frustration, anger and disappointment. the game on PS3 is a joke.