Right, Time For Some Real Talk on This Fifa/PES Buisness

[RAMAXWY]

epic, this thread is just epic.
we all knew he could talk but i thought i'd never see the day he'd be defending PES.
THE ARGUMENTS LADIES AND GENTLEMEN ARE OUT OF THIS WORLD BECAUSE LETS FACE IT,it is easier defending PES.
LOVING IT TECH,and the fact that your man enough for this,well it won't mean a lot i guess but hats off and you have all my respect.

 

[shaun7]

I am also with those against fifa's overrated pressure system and tackling system. It's just too easy to take the ball.
BTW this is only mentioning the bad side of fifa, because it too like pes has a good side.

 

[Tech_Skill]

I am also with those against fifa's overrated pressure system and tackling system. It's just too easy to take the ball.
BTW this is only mentioning the bad side of fifa, because it too like pes has a good side.

I agree, as an overall package, I can see why fifa is preferred to PES, the issue I have is with.

-EA Releasing 3 games in one year, with each game having few major improvements over the over in my opinion

-EA making promises they cannot keep the player individuality shown in their test bed development video doesn't appeared to have made its way into the final game.

-EA making excuse after excuse for not patching a game with 70+ bugs, some of which were game breaking.

-The media totally overrating Fifa11 based on a few days max of playing it, which is not long enough of a period to give the game a 10/10 score, especially when the game is notorious for not lasting the distance.

-Deluded fans calling Fifa11 the best football game ever, when it's quite clear there are fundamental imbalances in core game aspects such as dribbling, the CPU AI is still not that great from what i've have seen in the demo, player and tactical individuality is still not up to standard, I still dont think the heading abilities of players is up to standard from what I have seen and that's not discounting the possibility of a ton of bugs like last years version.

-People confusing Broadcast realism, with 'on the pitch realism' in other words, fifa is capable of looking like a tv broadcast, but under the hood, i'm yet to be convinced the way it plays is as realistic as some would have you believe. PES does not look as broadcast realistic as fifa, but on the pitch there is a case for it being just as realistic if not more than fifa. I(in terms of player individuality, passing and tactics etc)

-I still think things are a bit repetitive in the final 3rd in recent fifa's, but maybe thats me, I still think in PES2011 there are are more possibilities when it comes to scoring goals.

-EA have yet to show me they are capable of making an engrossing career mode where you can play multiple seasons without gamebreaking bugs, incorrect basics like the weather and without the gameplay getting repeatative.

This is my opinion right now, if EA can change it, I will give them credit, I call it as I see it, and right now, this is how I see it.

 

[DoubleO_88]

I agree, as an overall package, I can see why fifa is preferred to PES, the issue I have is with.

-EA Releasing 3 games in one year, with each game having few major improvements over the over in my opinion

-EA making promises they cannot keep the player individuality shown in their test bed development video doesn't appeared to have made its way into the final game.

-EA making excuse after excuse for not patching a game with 70+ bugs, some of which were game breaking.

-The media totally overrating Fifa11 based on a few days max of playing it, which is not long enough of a period to give the game a 10/10 score, especially when the game is notorious for not lasting the distance.

-Deluded fans calling Fifa11 the best football game ever, when it's quite clear there are fundamental imbalances in core game aspects such as dribbling, the CPU AI is still not that great from what i've have seen in the demo, player and tactical individuality is still not up to standard, I still dont think the heading abilities of players is up to standard from what I have seen and that's not discounting the possibility of a ton of bugs like last years version.

-People confusing Broadcast realism, with 'on the pitch realism' in other words, fifa is capable of looking like a tv broadcast, but under the hood, i'm yet to be convinced the way it plays is as realistic as some would have you believe. PES does not look as broadcast realistic as fifa, but on the pitch there is a case for it being just as realistic if not more than fifa. I(in terms of player individuality, passing and tactics etc)

-I still think things are a bit repetitive in the final 3rd in recent fifa's, but maybe thats me, I still think in PES2011 there are are more possibilities when it comes to scoring goals.

-EA have yet to show me they are capable of making an engrossing career mode where you can play multiple seasons without gamebreaking bugs, incorrect basics like the weather and without the gameplay getting repeatative.

This is my opinion right now, if EA can change it, I will give them credit, I call it as I see it, and right now, this is how I see it.

I agree but in a PES vs FIFA perspective there's no point arguing PES being less broken when clearly it is with this horrible bug where defenders don't attack jogging players 1 on 1 now that is much more broken than anything on FIFA but if that does get resolved I will be happily buying PRO this year but if not then call me a FIFA boy because that bug is so off putting right now, after being so pleased with everything else in the game it's so disappointing that has to let it down.

 

[Tech_Skill]

I agree but in a PES vs FIFA perspective there's no point arguing PES being less broken when clearly it is with this horrible bug where defenders don't attack jogging players 1 on 1 now that is much more broken than anything on FIFA but if that does get resolved I will be happily buying PRO this year but if not then call me a FIFA boy because that bug is so off putting right now, after being so pleased with everything else in the game it's so disappointing that has to let it down.

Thats fine, I don't remember saying FIFA 11 is more bugged than PES2011, correct me if I am wrong.... and that bug you mentioned in PES is bad and does need fixing, what I am referring to is this...... Last year David Rutter (fifa top dog) tweeted a few weeks before fifa 10 was released, that it was a bug free game, on release there were over 70 bugs and EA did NOTHING about many of them, it was disgraceful and I cussed the shit outta them on this very forum for that.

Fifa 09 has a bunch of bugs in it as well some of them I believe were still present in fifa 10! In fifa 10, players would literally go missing from your squad cos they had been let go without your permission, if you loaned a player to another club, that club could sell him without your permission, the was a bug which stopped you renewing contracts till the players contract ran out, a bug which put your club a billion or so pounds/euros in debt.......loads of bugs and EA these fucks all disappeared and then re appeared when it was time to sell the next fifa.

Lets see what happens with fifa 11, it wouldn't surprise me if that was bugged up too, seeing as EA have a shit track record when it comes to QA'ing their recent fifa games.

 

[Jedimaster1]

Thats fine, I remember saying FIFA 11 is more bugged than PES2011, correct me if I am wrong.... and that bug you mentioned in PES is bad and does need fixing, what I will say is this...... Last year David Rutter (fifa top dog) tweeted a few weeks before fifa 10 was released, that it was a bug free game, on release there were over 70 bugs and EA did NOTHING about many of them, it was disgraceful and I cussed the shit outta them on this very forum for that.

Fifa 09 has a bunch of bugs in it as well some of them I believe were still present in fifa 10! In fifa 10, players would literally go missing from your squad cos they had been let go without your permission, if you loaned a player to another club, that club could sell him without your permission, the was a bug which stopped you renewing contracts till the players contract ran out, a bug which put your club a billion or so pounds/euros in debt.......loads of bugs and EA these fucks all disappeared and then re appeared when it was time to sell the next fifa.

Lets see what happens with fifa 11, it wouldn't surprise me if that was bugged up too, seeing as EA have a shit track record when it comes to QA'ing their recent fifa games.

Agreed!

I get frustrated reading reviews which every year call Fifa the perfect game. But after I buy the game and play for a few weeks, I notice every freakin' bug that EA somehow didn't find. Plus the online exploits and patches that fixes one thing, but then breaks another. Classic EA quality control.

PES, even with it's lack of features and presentation, always seems to capture my attention for longer. And this demo seems to me to be a vast improvement over last year's game.

But alas I will get Fifa again and PES. We'll see which is the best in the end, at least for me.

 

[Tech_Skill]

Agreed!

I get frustrated reading reviews which every year call Fifa the perfect game. But after I buy the game and play for a few weeks, I notice every freakin' bug that EA somehow didn't find.

This is the thing with the recent fifa games, the reviewers do not play the game enough to find the bugs, so they give it great reviews, then a few weeks later all hell breaks loose. We went through it all with the 'fifa 10 is the best game ever', those reviews were totally discredited when people actually started playing fifa for longer than a week. Their method of reviewing doesn't work, fifa is KNOWN for being very good in the 1st few weeks before the cracks begin to appear. Let's see what happens this year.

When i played the fifa demo, i played/tested from the point of seeing if I thought enough had been done to the game to make me think i could play it offline all year round without getting bored, so far the answer is NO, there just is not enough variation, but maybe the full version will be special.

(Also, the was slight typo in my response to ''double 0-88'', I do NOT remember saying fifa11 is more bugged than pes2011, but i am open to correction on that)

 

[DoubleO_88]

This is the thing with the recent fifa games, the reviewers do not play the game enough to find the bugs, so they give it great reviews, then a few weeks later all hell breaks loose. We went through it all with the 'fifa 10 is the best game ever', those reviews were totally discredited when people actually started playing fifa for longer than a week. Their method of reviewing doesn't work, fifa is KNOWN for being very good in the 1st few weeks before the cracks begin to appear. Let's see what happens this year.

When i played the fifa demo, i played/tested from the point of seeing if I thought enough had been done to the game to make me think i could play it offline all year round without getting bored, so far the answer is NO, there just is not enough variation, but maybe the full version will be special.

(Also, the was slight typo in my response to ''double 0-88'', I do NOT remember saying fifa11 is more bugged than pes2011, but i am open to correction on that)

Oh well I guess it seemed like that's what you were implying, but that may be the case anyway because I didn't even know about all those bugs in FIFA as I've not owned a FIFA game since FIFA 99 but I've played enough games on it to know the gameplay sucks compared to old pro's on PS2 but I admit FIFA was much better on the 09 10 installments.

 

[shaun7]

I also hate reviewers. They're way too biased and don't understand how football works. But the biggest flaw of reviewers is that they play it for a few hours and then write a review. That's stupid. With a game you need much more. You need AT LEAST days. Even up to a week.
But anyway FIFA 11 is CLEARLY overrated. I mean 10/10? That's shocking.
If it was 8/10 then yeah it deserves an 8 but not a 10.
But for me, the AI is actually worse than fifa 10. I am not 100% sure about this but it's what I think at the moment.
Reason being that the AI can dribble past you with the greatest ease and you cannot go past them using close control (or it rarely happens), the superhuman pressure in fifa 11 is worse than fifa 10. That said, there are things which aren't fixed from fifa 10 like strength still being an overrated attribute and it's still not fixed in 11 and the attributes clearly don't mean much AGAIN.
That said, it does not deserve a 10.
Same with pes It has issues that aren't so small like the defender tackling for example. IT IS AN AI problem that needs fixing. However, I never expected such an improvement from pes 11.

 

[Tech_Skill]

I also hate reviewers. They're way too biased and don't understand how football works. But the biggest flaw of reviewers is that they play it for a few hours and then write a review. That's stupid. With a game you need much more. You need AT LEAST days. Even up to a week.
But anyway FIFA 11 is CLEARLY overrated. I mean 10/10? That's shocking.
If it was 8/10 then yeah it deserves an 8 but not a 10.
But for me, the AI is actually worse than fifa 10. I am not 100% sure about this but it's what I think at the moment.
Reason being that the AI can dribble past you with the greatest ease and you cannot go past them using close control (or it rarely happens), the superhuman pressure in fifa 11 is worse than fifa 10. That said, there are things which aren't fixed from fifa 10 like strength still being an overrated attribute and it's still not fixed in 11 and the attributes clearly don't mean much AGAIN.
That said, it does not deserve a 10.
Same with pes It has issues that aren't so small like the defender tackling for example. IT IS AN AI problem that needs fixing. However, I never expected such an improvement from pes 11.

agreed on a few things there, actually i think the pressure is worse in fifa 10, but here's another thing........

Someone said this on evo web and its actually very true, PES is never gonna beat fifa in the ratings again until it sorts out its presentation and player movement, should Konami focus on these things in the PES2011 or would you prefer them to increase player individuality even more?

I think in terms of game presentation, i think the answer for Konami is to make it customizable, you how on your computer or firefox you can download different themes? do the same for pes, release them as DLC, people would go nutz for that shit, especially if you make them club related, so for instance release a Milan theme, a barca theme etc.

 

[shaun7]

agreed on a few things there, actually i think the pressure is worse in fifa 10, but here's another thing........

I am not 100% sure about that.

Someone said this on evo web and its actually very true, PES is never gonna beat fifa in the ratings again until it sorts out its presentation and player movement, should Konami focus on these things in the PES2011 or would you prefer them to increase player individuality even more?

I think it's true unfortunately. However I find this year's presentation and menus quite good. Actually they're good.
I cannot understand this though.
Everyone is currently saying how great fifa's presentation is but then they overlook certain things.
At least in fifa 10 sicne I haven't play fifa 11 full version.
It was EXTRA SLOOW compared to pes loading times
The menus were slow to navigate and sometimes the button you press doesn't respond in time. In pes 10 (even though i didn't like it's gameplay) the menus were pretty well in terms of loading times and navigation speed.
Even the formations in fifa take too much time to select the proper player.

But with that in mind, pes should focus on gameplay elements first and PLAYER MOVEMENT especially. I think player individuality can take a back seat FOR NOW because there are other issues to solve first.But fluidity (especially in linking animations) and player movements ARE A MUST in the improvements list. Then ofcourse the presentation. For me, it's not that important, but then again, a game needs to have everything including presentation.

I think in terms of game presentation, i think the answer for Konami is to make it customizable, you how on your computer or firefox you can download different themes? do the same for pes, release them as DLC, people would go nutz for that shit, especially if you make them club related, so for instance release a Milan theme, a barca theme etc.

This is actually a great idea. That's awesome as you're showing the fans that you're interested in the game's presentation even more and the fans will be more involved. They could also allow you to make your own wallpaper by having it imported from your ps3. Much like the logos in the kits, but they'll be wallpapers I know I would love this because I am pretty good at photoshop and I really like using it. Not to mention, it's editing aswell and pes is already great at editing.

 

[fick]

I think in terms of game presentation, i think the answer for Konami is to make it customizable, you how on your computer or firefox you can download different themes? do the same for pes, release them as DLC, people would go nutz for that shit, especially if you make them club related, so for instance release a Milan theme, a barca theme etc.

Cash-cow EA style?

 

[Tech_Skill]

Cash-cow EA style?

DLC can be free, but yes, they could also charge, its a trade off, they are more likely to do it if they can make money off it, but it can be free, or people can create their own and distribute them like option files, there are a few ways it can be done, either way, allowing users to customise core aspects of the game is something that should be looked into for ALL games, not just football games.

 

[Stormrider]

Yea I never understood all the hype for Fifa's menus. I can't stand them. They're really slow and hard to navigate. It takes forever to look at a player's stats and when you get there the stats are arranged alphabetically which makes it even longer to determine a player's key stats on top of being really slow to navigate through them all. Maybe it's because EA recognize that their stats mean diddly squat so they try to make it as hard as possible to view so people will just give up and simply play the game.

In any version of Pes it's incredibly quick and simple to check player stats, edit formations and strategies, and the loading is a whole lot quicker. In Fifa, and all EA games for that matter, there's a some form of loading for every little thing you do. Makes me wanna pull my hair out.

 

[worm]

Dude, im really sorry to have to say this but I think you need to squeeze your asshole a little tighter, that way the EA boys wont find it so easy to get in there, they don't even have to lube up, your just bending over with a big fucking grin, ready to shell out more money on a game which is hardly different to the other games. For the last time im going to explain the following to you.

HOLY JAYSUS !!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is spaced-out stuff man. Poor fella ( byondthought )only tired to get his point across.

 

[RAMAXWY]

Dude, im really sorry to have to say this but I think you need to squeeze your asshole a little tighter, that way the EA boys wont find it so easy to get in there, they don't even have to lube up, your just bending over with a big fucking grin, ready to shell out more money on a game which is hardly different to the other games. For the last time im going to explain the following to you.

HOLY JAYSUS !!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is spaced-out stuff man. Poor fella ( byondthought )only tired to get his point across.

:w00t yeah i thought i was the only one that thought it was priceless.
best insult on this site if you ask me pure gold.

 

[123hello]

After playing the demo of PES 11, I have come to the conclusion that Konami aren't good enough... I'm sorry, and I understand that this is a PES Gaming website, yet I have to offer some feedback. The dribbling, although you have more control, which is a good thing, it seems soo unrealistic. The defenders, don't defend like they would in real life, they just ball watch and do a rubbish jokey animation. The passing is good, and I like it. Thats the good thing about PES 11. The Crossing animations are really silly aswell. They do this reall, relaxed, 'David Beckham' style cross, even when your sprinting. The shooting is rubbish aswell. They do a really limp and loopy shot. You can barley drive a ball. They also do a silly animation when they shot too, the whole game deosn't seem realistic if im honest. It's an improvement from PES 10, yet I don't think it will be a hit as much. I will probaley end up buying it as I love BAL Mode, yet if Fifa's Career mode is good then BAL will be ineligble. So In conclusion I have been let down by the demo, and I now call myself a officail Fifa player...

 

[James_dean]

After playing the demo of PES 11, I have come to the conclusion that Konami aren't good enough... I'm sorry, and I understand that this is a PES Gaming website, yet I have to offer some feedback. The dribbling, although you have more control, which is a good thing, it seems soo unrealistic. The defenders, don't defend like they would in real life, they just ball watch and do a rubbish jokey animation. The passing is good, and I like it. Thats the good thing about PES 11. The Crossing animations are really silly aswell. They do this reall, relaxed, 'David Beckham' style cross, even when your sprinting. The shooting is rubbish aswell. They do a really limp and loopy shot. You can barley drive a ball. They also do a silly animation when they shot too, the whole game deosn't seem realistic if im honest. It's an improvement from PES 10, yet I don't think it will be a hit as much. I will probaley end up buying it as I love BAL Mode, yet if Fifa's Career mode is good then BAL will be ineligble. So In conclusion I have been let down by the demo, and I now call myself a officail Fifa player...

You want a realistic game and you choose Fifa? Are you on drugs?

 

[dicky_t]

Fifa appeals to the masses for its simplicity ,theres a template to it ,that has been the same for every single Fifa ,as for it evolving it never has ,it has just added more variation to gameplay

but simply and try this on ANY version of Fifa and you will find it works

4-4-2 formation from CB pass to Leftback ,leftback passes foreward upfeild to left midfeild ,left midfeild passes in feild to nearest centre midfeild ,centre midfeild passes foreward straight upfeild too striker ,the striker plays it back to the centre midfeilder ,the central midfeilder then plays it foreward to the other striker who is goal side with a free shot on goal

then try the same passing move on PES try it with Barca first ,you will maybe get away with 1 in 6 will make it through to the final ball

try it with a team in Copa on the demo you will find the move will break down at least 50% of the time before it gets to the central midfeilder as the pace of the ball even with the new passing system will allow players to get back into posistion

the point i am making is this ,Fifa doesnt mark ,because it doesnt have time too ,simply because EVERY player passes at the same pace and accuracy ,regardless of champions league or lower divisions ,where as PES for all its faults if you match top team v top team then players react quicker to this and will also close you down quicker ,average team v average team ,the players react slower ,but also the passes are slower ,and forces you to change your style of play and maybe even the formation you play from what team you choose

try and say the same about Fifa

 

[Dabeeds]

I've been playing the pes 2011demo alot vs human opposition recently, and the defence is just not good enough. It's way to easy to pass the ball around and keep possession on offence.

But fifa is a pos, and i never liked how it felt, so that's not an option.

So i guess it's back to editing WE9/PES5 for me again. I did want to like pes 2011, so i could play online, and not have to edit anymore.

Of course there are some better things in 2011, like the graphics and the short passing freedom, but at the end of the day the most important thing to me is a realistic balance between the offence & defence.

Too bad, cause i thought it just might of let me put pes5/WE9 to rest finally, but i guess that was just wishful thinking.

After all, it's been how many years that this game has been the best now ?